M = Me
S = Salty Person
O = Other Salty Person
R = Reasonable Person

S - Mar sucks and the mountains of new content are useless.
M - That's picky.
S - Picky?!
O - Picky?!
M - I like the new stuff.
S - It's useless and nobody will ever use it.
M - I use it.
O - Why?
M - Muffler helps control fire rate and bursts of low-capacity guns.
S - It makes them worse.
M - Not to me.
S - Always the same argument with you people.
M - And?
R - Why does it matter?
O - HE'S WRONG.
M - How am I wrong for my taste in customization?
S - IT MAKES THE GUN WORSE.
M - Not for me.
S - DuRrR nOt FoR mE hUrRr.
M - Impersonate me harder, McDaddy.
S - What are you smoking?
R - Dude, drop it.
O - HE'S STUPID.
M - Thanks, you too.
S - Liking something doesn't make it good!
M - Doesn't make it good to you, but it's still good to me.
S - Everyone who likes this crap uses that argument!!
M - Does that make them wrong?
S - Yes!!!
M - How?

votekicked

I've never seen anyone so triggered over someone else's enjoyment of content.

Just a random discussion point I have. There are story genres out there that have been milked dry and others with udders on the verge of bursting... that was an awful metaphor, but you get what I'm trying to convey.

Let's start with overdone genres:

Zombie Apocalypse
For crying out loud, this has been done to death, yet it keeps clawing itself back up just like the convenient antagonists it portrays. Every variation of zombie, every character type, every scenario, pretty much nothing original left.

Alien Invasion
Whether it be apocalyptic or just an excuse for a mysterious antagonist (extraterrestrial, interdimensional, or otherwise), this is also a genre that's just dried out at this point. On the rare occasion, there's a unique scenario, like in Battle of Los Angeles where modern combat tech is pitted against extraterrestrial drone tech on a more-or-less even playing field, or even Avatar where humans are the alien invaders against a primitive species. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be enough creative juice flowing through this category of fiction.

Superheroes
Super people beating up other super people with no regard for collateral damage and giving everyone else an inferiority complex. Been there, done that. Moving on.

There are a few exceptions; things that have been going on forever yet always manage to get an original twist. One good example:

Godzilla Movies
Finally getting a big-budget makeover with a unique setting while staying true to their original content. Appeals to nostalgia are worked in perfectly without dominating the plot.

One of the biggest things that long-running franchises have been falling victim to is equating originality to enjoyability. This is not always the case; you can have a completely original plot or arc for the franchise that undermines everything people enjoy about the franchise or tries to appeal to a small number of people that don't even invest in the franchise to begin with (take SJWs for example). Star Wars is one of the biggest victims of this, along with Doctor Who, Marvel Comics, and other unfortunate classics.

Now for the genres that haven't been explored enough:

Steampunk
Essentially a Victorian Era setting with a heavily industrialized and sometimes mildly futuristic twist, this is by far one of my favorite genres, in a tie with Dieselpunk for first place. Technology in this genre takes a lot of inspiration from Leonardo da Vinci's concept sketches, such as corkscrew propulsion, ornithopters, volley guns, and airship-scale hot air balloons. I'm amazed we don't have a proper multiplayer FPS in this genre yet (Guns of Icarus kind of counts, I guess, but it's less of an FPS and more of a ship crew simulator).

Dieselpunk
A similar concept to Steampunk, but focused on the Industrial and Modern Eras with similar hyper-industrialized or futuristic aspects. In many cases, this genre is based on how people in these eras envisioned the future, most notably in comic books from those decades. The movies Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow and Captain America: The First Avenger are good examples of Dieselpunk settings. Iron Harvest is a good example of a Dieselpunk RTS game.

Deep Sea Adventure
To be fair, the Aquaman movie explored this genre a bit, but it was still primarily a superhero movie. Atlantis: The Lost Empire combined a little bit of this with a bit of Dieselpunk, but they weren't the dominant themes. Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea was a 1960s sci-fi series in this genre, but there hasn't been much else besides the Subnautica game franchise and a few horror movies.

The SPAS-12 is a hybrid semi-auto and pump-action shotgun, and I feel like this should be simulated in PF. It's a pretty simple idea; the SPAS-12 would gain that alternate pump-action mode. Switching to it reduces its fire rate, but improves recoil recovery and hip-fire accuracy.

reads title

If you say so.

unzips

Just annoying when I want to edit a more complex post only for it to tell me "durrr… you ran out of time to do dat fam..."

In my mind, this is the ideal class setup in any FPS game (weapon classes would vary with the time period, but we're obviously focused on modern day).

Granted, this will only really matter when equipment is finally implemented after several eternities.

There are also two new weapon categories discussed here. I'll start with the classes themselves:

Assault
Primary - Assault Rifles, Shotguns, Carbines, Scout Rifles
Equipment - Launchers, Light (thrown) C4, Timed Charges, Ballistic Shield

Medic
Primary - SLRs, Carbines, Scout Rifles
Equipment - Medical Bag, First Aid Kits, Defibrillators, Teammate Buffs (drugz)

Support
Primary - LMGs, Battle Rifles, Carbines, Scout Rifles
Equipment - Ammo Packs, Mortars, Bangalore Torpedoes, RC Explosive, Grappling Hook Launcher

Engineer
Primary - SMGs, Carbines, Scout Rifles
Equipment - Deployable Cover, Heavy (placed) C4, Mines, MP-APS, Spawn Beacon

Recon
Primary - Sniper Rifles, DMRs, Carbines, Scout Rifles
Equipment - Spotting Optics, Motion Sensors, Decoys, Jammers, Recon Drones, Claymores, Crossbow

Regarding the new weapon categories:

SLRs
Self-Loading Rifles. Exclusive to the Medic class, these are any semi-automatic rifles not specifically labeled as DMRs or Sniper Rifles, such as civilian versions of ARs and BRs like the Colt AR-15 and SCAR-17S and non-tactical long rifles like the L1A1, M1 Garand, etc. This would be the new home of the SL-8. SLRs typically have faster rates of fire than DMRs thanks to their internal components being tuned to a more aggressive role instead of pinpoint accuracy (although they're still very accurate weapons if the user has good trigger discipline).

Scout Rifles
More of a subcategory of Carbines than anything, Scout Rifles are all-class single-action or double-action (revolver) rifles with a length of 40 inches or less, placing their balancing somewhere between Sniper Rifles and DMRs. This would be the new home of the Steyr Scout, Henry 45-70, Jury, KAC SRR, and 1858 Carbine. It also leaves plenty of room for things like Winchester Carbines, the Mosin Carbine, etc.

Probably another unpopular opinion of mine, but meh.

I do wish we had a separate "Magazine" section in customization.

Can't forget the barrel shroud as an attachment. It could also increase the fire rate to its original unmitigated 1500rpm.

I hate the rail-on-rail thing that happens when different iron sights are equipped on things like the MP412 even though the first rail has plenty of room.

But yeah, I prefer ring sights without rails on handguns.

Cool that we're finally getting ring sights on primaries though.

Darkman_Bree

This is the error message:
You are only allowed to edit posts for 3600 second(s) after posting

Something to make the Chainsaw Grip less of a meme and more of a practical choice.

1. Make it provide an over-the-sight aiming mode like the alternate aiming modes on LMGs and the like.
2. Give it a hip-fire buff.

And that's pretty much all I can think of. I think everything in the game should have at least some use.

F for Wilford Brimley, the dia-bee-tus meme man.

House Fight dev

Why add the newer AK-12 models? Well, they have some unique characteristics in function. Instead of a three-round burst like the prototypes, they have a two-round burst, but I'm not sure if it has the same increased fire rate.

Just thought everyone should know that the HK51K is a thing.

https://scontent-dfw5-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/14712581_369971460046431_5823244691393779917_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=2d5d41&_nc_ohc=OhffDOUljeoAX8eWvDm&_nc_ht=scontent-dfw5-2.xx&oh=50441fc52719cc3d15484ad95cc5c69d&oe=5F4AC06C

After all these years of Black Ops I and II being released, there's a theory that I've only seen one obscure page about.

In Black Ops II, you play as David Mason, Alex Mason's son, yet all we know about the mother is that she died when David was young. We are never told the identity of his mother, and almost nobody really seemed to look into it further.

It suddenly hit me just a few days ago. There was a seemingly random scene in the first Black Ops when Alex Mason is following Robert McNamara through the Pentagon where the camera zooms in and goes slow-motion on a blonde woman smoking a cigarette. It always stood out to me just because of how out-of-place it seemed, but now it makes sense.

http://pm1.narvii.com/6313/5cd1bfa7b92f1820ece27afefbc301a58b3fcf51_00.jpg

After a quick search, I discovered that the character's name is Sarah Leary. Her only real plot point is in the game's intel secrets involving a letter to Weaver about Mason.

So why the heck would this random cameo be here? We never see her again in either Black Ops game. Literally the only reason for this can be that she is the mother of the sequel's main character.

TheLastMan said in Rethinking Weapon Categorization:

ItsRunAway I won't say your argument is completely wrong, but just as in example, .50 cal bullets were made for MGs, and yet you have snipers using them; it doesn't mean all guns that use that round are MGs. Just trying to make a point and to play devil's advocate.

True, but bear in mind the .50 cal round was always an "anti-materiel" round regardless of weapon. There are hard differences between the classifications of pistol, intermediate, rifle, and anti-materiel rounds.

It's true that weapons like the G36 and Krinkov could be considered "PDWs," but not SMGs due to their larger rounds. The PDW category in PF is getting more and more blurred with Carbines (weapons like the SR-3M and SCAR-PDW could be in the PDW category, yet they remain in Carbines). This is why I've always wanted the category to be renamed "SMGs" and stick with pistol-caliber weapons. Not all PDWs are SMGs and not all SMGs are PDWs (there are some seriously large SMGs out there).

The debates around categorization by weapon type quickly become moot when there's no real point in a class system for this type of game, thus this more model-oriented setup I have in mind.

ItsRunAway said in Rethinking Weapon Categorization:

1: The guns are sorted by rank

How does this work against categorizing by make and model?

2: We already have so many Kalashnikov variants in the carbine section

Most common excuse. Still the wrong categories.

3: Just because you can make the C7A2 a PDW or the Beowulf ECR an Assault Rifle doesn't mean anything, because their default state is how they are supposed to be used. Because the Beowulf ECR shoots .50 Beowulf, which is a pretty big round, perfect for a Battle Rifle, and the C7A2 shoots 5.56 (I think), which is an Assault Rifle caliber. The only thing that I could see that doesn't fit in its respective category is the Dragonuv SVU and the HK51B

Back to the question about #1. If anything, this reinforces the argument to sort by make and model.

After throwing my own OCD around, I finally came to a few conclusions about weapon and class categorization in PF. However, my OCD is still in play here...

It's always gotten on my nerves how weapons are so badly categorized. Rifles can be turned into Carbines despite not being in the category or already having their shorter counterparts in it, other Carbines are tossed into the PDW category (joined recently by the Krinkov), BRs can be turned into ARs within the same category, etc.

Before, I was begging Stylis to move weapons to their proper categories as they got more and more inconsistent, to which I received quite a bit of vague criticism and a general "shut up and play the game, you entitled child" response from one dev in particular who I will never let live it down.

So, I rethought my own OCD. I decided that, since the classes in PF are pointless and I'm convinced we'll never get equipment (even if we do, I don't think it'll be enough to divide between class roles, especially since vehicles aren't a thing in PF), just categorize weapons by make and model. For example:

MP5

• MP5
• MP5K
• MP5SD
• MP5/10
• MP10

AK-12 Prototype (named such in the hopes that the newer army-adopted AK-12 models will be added)

• AK-12 (P)
• AKU-12
• AK-12C
• RPK-12
• AK-12 BR
• DBV-12

And so on. Simple, accurate, fits nicely in my explosive OCD.

The Rocket Gun was a bit of an odd choice as the dedicated AT weapon in BF1 since they had to take a lot of creative liberties with it.

IRL, it was called the Vickers 1.59-inch breechloader and wasn't much more than a prototype. It had a much longer yoke and much larger mount than depicted in BF1. The mount was also attached to the middle of the gun instead of on the front like in the game. Granted, it was technically possible to modify and lighten the gun in such a way as to carry it around like in BF1, but as far as historical documents go, that was never done.

All that being said, it's pretty darn far-fetched as a weapon in PF. If they were to add a big handheld cannon, they might go with the Japanese "o-zutsu," a huge matchlock.

Okay, after pouring over my own OCD, how about this:

Instead of a pointless class system with a rudimentary weapon categorization system, we ditch classes and organize weapons by make and model? It would look something like this:

MP5

• MP5
• MP5K
• MP5SD
• MP5/10
• MP10

AK-12 Prototype (named such with the hope of the later adopted models being added)

• AK-12 (P)
• AKU-12
• AK-12C
• AK-12 BR
• RPK-12
• DBV-12

And so on.

ILost3Accounts

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMI_Galil

If you read under "variants," it states that the ARM is an LMG variant alongside AR, carbine, and DMR variants.