Test place feedback (5/29/20)



  • heck_god The HBAR, MG36, Colt LMG, RPKs, and HAMR are as common or almost as common as their assault rifle counterparts. You know which LMG doesn't see a lot of use? The LSW, the only 30 round LMG, however, IRL all these LMGs would be used with 30-round mags for a multitude of reasons. My idea is so that all of the mag fed LMGs would have 30 rounds by default but buffed suppression, so people use them as support weapons and not as assault rifles with bigger magazines. An extended mag should be added to these guns, but it should also be offered to the assault rifle and carbine counterparts, so that they will see more use. Also, extended mags over 40 rounds should offer significant nerfs, such as lack of ability to go fully prone (a partial prone would be added for this) or much lower movement and reload (like, much lower)

    This can allow for more extended mags, however, such as RPK 75 round, LSW 60 round, or Colt LMG 100 round



  • doublepiedavid The extended magazines would have different models right?

    The RPK has a drum magazine
    The L86 reuses the Colt LMG's 60 rnd magazine
    The Colt LMG uses the MG36's Beta C Drum magazine



  • @OTs-12 Sure



  • doublepiedavid Three things:
    1: RANT TIME: I see the LSW a lot, and I would estimate it is the second most used LMG I see, second to the M60. Perhaps that is just me, and maybe I could be wrong, but saying that the mentioned LMGs are used as much, or almost as much, as their AR counterparts is just flat-out wrong. The Aug HBAR is a great example. In almost every server, there is someone using the Aug A1. I have to estimate that I see the Aug HBAR maybe once in every 15 servers I visit. I personally even use the Aug A3 Para more than the Aug HBAR. And I know that that is just one specific rifle out of the guns you listed, but I think the same is true for all of them. I see the Scar - L more than the Scar HAMR. I see a G36 or other guns from that family, excluding MG36, half as much as the Aug A1, which is still a lot, and still a lot more than the MG36. Need I go on? At the end of the day, I don't see LMGs that often (other than M60) and I think most of the support for your argument rests on a fallacy.

    2: I don't think shorter mags should be default. I think it could get a lot of people upset, more than those who are currently complaining about the LMGs I have a possible compromise:

    Instead of having the 30rd mags default, both the mags we have currently, and the 30rd (which I imagine you mean just generally a shorter mag, as I assume each gun does not have a clip that is exactly the same size) is free. The current guns stats would not be effected by the normal mag, but the smaller one could drastically increase walk-speed, aim-speed, etc. I should also mention that this takes away the alt. aim, similar to how the Tommy gun currently functions. (only the large drum mag has an alt. aim)

    3: You mention having shorter, 30rd mags on all clip-fed LMGs, which means the M60, an early, belt-fed LMG will have a distinct advantage over all the other LMGs, excepting the HK. Furthermore, you want the 30rd mags to be default, because LMGs are currently being used as ARs. I'm assuming this just means you want to nerf the ammo for those guns, but you will have to assume that there will be stat changes as well. I guess my problem with you idea, as you have stated it, means that you can make a good LMG into a bad AR, and the good AR counterpart to that gun into a possibly better LMG, (depending on how the stats are manipulated). But you don't have the option of the good LMG anymore, rather, you have to unlock it by using the bad AR, while the better AR LMG could probably be unlocked with just as many kills, while you're using a good AR.

    As you have stated you suggestion, if it were implemented, I think most people would abandon the LMGs you have listed. I think a great deal of those people will go to the M60 or HK21, while a smaller number will go to the AR-LMGs you created, leaving the already small LMG category to be used even less.



  • TheLastMan

    1. I personally see three HBARs for every one A1 (I actually counted this one), and it is the third most used LMG I see, after the M60 and HK-21 , about four Colt LMGs for every M16a3 (Granted, there is a huge rank discrepancy, but I do see it used by mid ranks fairly frequently) and the RPK, RPK-74, and MG36 get used at about a two for every one ratio. The RPK-12 is almost completely unused, especially opposed to the AK-12, the HAMR and SCAR-L are about a one to one ratio, and the LSW is used at about one for every two or three L85s. It seems like we may be playing PF in completely different universes, lol.

    2. Perhaps we could do this, but the guns with the default mags get heavy nerfs to walk speed, aim speed, and reload speed.

    3. The M60 and HK21 can get similar nerfs, where they are fed by default by 50-round belts and 100-round belts can be a high rank attachment. Another thing that can be considered is replacing the M60 with the M249 SAW and the HK21 with the HK11. The SAW would be by default 50-round belt fed but would have a 30-round magazine as a free attachment and have a 100 round belt at 2000 kills or something. The HK11 would have a 20-round magazine by default, but it would have an HK-21 conversion at about 1000 kills, giving it its 100 round belt back.

    I also did not say that I want to turn LMGs in ARs, more like I want LMGs to be used as LMGs and ARs as ARs, so they would get buffed range, buffed RPM, and much higher suppression but also nerfed CQB damage. This would reinforce the LMG's role as an area-denyment tool, rather than as an aggressive weapon. The AR extended mags are just a possibility that may be a bad idea, but I still think we should consider giving all LMGs multiple mag options, such as:

    • Colt LMG: 30, 60, 100
      *HBAR: 30, 42, 50
      *MG36: 30, 50, 100
      *RPK (all): 30, 45, 75
      *LSW: 30, 60
      *HAMR: 30, 50, 100

    I think that this would be a massive improvement to the game overall



  • doublepiedavid
    1: It really does seem like we have entirely different experiences.
    2: I would agree to these nerfs, especially with walk speed but I can't help but feel that reloading should be completely dependent on the amount of bullets, i.e. 100rds takes ~3s while 50rds take ~1.5s. Those aren't real numbers, just trying to show what I mean.
    3: I propose an alternative: perhaps the M249 SAW and HK11, with the smaller mags, are made around lower levels, so for instance, the M249 would replace the M60 at unlock rank, and the M60 is boosted many levels higher. The M60 would have the 50rd and all that you said, but the M249 would have the clip by default, and you have to unlock the belts. When it comes to the HK11, I don't know how it compares to the HK21, but maybe it could be between the M249 and M60, and also starts with clip, but it takes half the kills that the M249 needs for the belt.



  • TheLastMan I can agree with you on all of this, as long as the M60 is boosted to past rank 200, lol. As for the HK11, it literally has a 20-round mag, so it would make more sense for the HK-21 to be an attachment for the HK-11, rather than both of them being separate guns



  • doublepiedavid
    M60: I think the M60 should have a pretty decent recoil nerf, but 200 seems a little drastic.

    HKs: Kind of how the new ammo conversions can rename a gun, if you equip a belt, it makes it into the HK21?



  • TheLastMan Exactly



  • Ehlextrix I think it's possible to use the M1A1 upper receiver for the tommy gun so it can accept optics properly