Phantom Forces Tier List by TP_One, Hellcat5, and SilverKnite


So yeah in my attempt to reply and roast the shit out of the number guy for placing the M1911 in D TIER (idiot), I’ve discovered that yes indeed this account is for some reason not banned. Anyways, to answer all your burning questions, yes I’m still single, $25 for an hour, and no this doesn’t mean I’m coming back, I fucking detest stylis as a whole and am glad to be rid of them. Doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy the game. Or make content for it. Anyways this tier list hasn’t been updated to consider the HK21 buffs, or the AA12, or HK416, or the Five SeveN. Anyways here it is.

And yes I was willing and able to create an entirely new account just to roast the number guy for putting the 1911 in D Tier. Anyways, seeya kids. Probably won’t actually, unless you’re on the cooler discord. But eh. Not my problem.

Any extra notes will be in the actual document by the way so. Yeah. Probably gonna go read the feels megathread and laugh at suffering or some shit now, not sure.


Bumping my own thread so you fucks actually reply to it. Get some discussion going, idk.


I wonder why AK-47 isn’t at least sharing its S tier spot with the AKM, given its largely vertical recoil and longer 3-hit kill range.

Also, MP5 is a lot better than the D tier warrants. The only really bad thing about it is the slow and somewhat frequent reloads. That’s it. IMO it’s B+/A- at least.

ECR and Vintorez I feel should be about B-tier, but that’s about it.

SFG and Obrez should swap places. SFG at least is actually effective at getting medium range kills. At least, moreso than the magnums.
(Actually, fuck it. Obrez gets a new tier; the Z tier. The absolute worst of the worst. That’s more than appropriate for the Obrez.)

So with that out of the way, let me voice some of my opinions on the new guns, and where they should be placed relative to any other counterpart, in order of rank unlock…

Five Seven: A tier (what it loses in damage it makes up for in capacity, penetration, reload speed, recoil, and muzzle velocity. Because of damage alone though, I’d say it’s a low A tier.)

HK416: S tier (fast reload, fast fire rate akin to the FAMAS, long 4-hit kill distance, and decent recoil? Easy contender for S tier before StyLis makes a wise balancing decision for once.)

AA-12: A- tier (slightly above the Saiga, about on par with the Stevens, largely due to the fast reload and far less awkward handling characteristics due to having a shorter barrel. Full auto makes this gun super fun to use, and is the best of both worlds when it comes to shotguns and PDWs.)


I’m gonna be honest, it’s just the camera recoil. The camera recoil on the 47 is a lot worse than on the AKM and as such it makes switching between targets so much harder than it really needs to be. Not to mention hitting shots in the first place. I’m not saying the AK47 is anywhere outside of A Tier, fuck no. Anyone putting it in A- or lower is god damn insane.

And here’s where we disagree. You see my reasoning for why the MP5 is low tier? It’s not just the ammo that’s the problem. Even in CQC it struggles against other PDWs, and even assault rifles and carbines thanks to its absolutely bonkers range. Like seriously it’s so low that you’re better off just pulling out your pistol 90% of the time rather than using the MP5. If they buffed its min damage to 20, then sure, it might be B Tier. But because of its slow reload speed and constant reloading as well as its low damage output overall as well as inability to compete with some of the most average weapons in the game, it lands its ass in D Tier. I want to like the MP5, I really do, but it is just so lackluster.

Here’s the thing, we don’t JUST take into account 1v1 matches. If we did that, then the tier list would have every single sniper in S Tier and everything else in F. The thing is, we don’t do that. In the event you run into 2, or god forbid 3 players, you’re fighting an uphill battle on the slopes of the Wellsville fucking mountains. Again, these guns are fun, but in a realistic setting, they fail to compete properly against any amount of organization when it comes to enemies. They are pick weapons, yes, but they can’t really do the picking at a distance like snipers, or pick consistently in CQC like shotguns. I personally would like both of these buffed, but we know that will never happen.

You see, here’s the thing. The Obrez gives you margin for error plus RNG, as well as relatively fast firing speed for a bolt action. The SFG completely lacks that and in the event that you miss, you’re fucking done. Don’t get me wrong, the SFG is LEAGUES above its dad, the BFG, but it’s still a BFG variant at heart. The issue with the BFG isn’t exclusive to it, it’s deeply ingrained into every single weapon like it. So yeah, overall the Obrez is faster, has more room for error, has more ammo, and can let you survive a lot longer than the SFG. That gives it the win in my book.

Now onto the new weapons

I would agree here. The Five SeveN is pretty great, but I wouldn’t say it’s god-like as many profess it to be. I would say middle of A given how it functions poorly in CQC situations. It’s kind of like an L85A2 as a secondary. But you know… actually good.

Absolutely fucking not. You see the M16A3 in B Tier? Yeah, that’s just a slightly worse HK416. These two weapons are basically the exact same. The only reason HK416 is doing good right now is because everyone uses it, and nobody is using the old guns that they would normally be using. Once they return to their regularly scheduled weaponry, the HK416 just lacks the ability to overcome a ton of the higher tier guns like PDWs, Carbines, even some LMGs, and other Assault Rifles. I like it, but I’ma be honest. A- Tier at best.

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm gonna have to disagree with you on that chief. While yes the AA12 plays as a great assault shotgun, its low damage output per pellet and low ammo pool due to its rate of fire make it a huge liability against groups, which most shotguns are notorious for dismantling. I will admit, the AA12 is pretty good as a pick weapon, it lets you get in and get out, but even in 1v1 situations, that low damage per pellet WILL cost you the match a lot of times. Sadly I would say it’s in B+ at best, and at worst C Tier.


It’s probably a personal experience thing, but the AK-47’s camera recoil isn’t that disorienting, and every time I used the AKM it had horizontal recoil up the wazoo. The higher damage on the 47 compared to the M helped a bit as to why I use the 47 a lot more too.

While the MP5 doesn’t have the greatest range, its recoil is still very controllable. Paired with its 800 RPM, it makes 6-hit kills at least fairly manageable. AP also rectifies the hits-to-kill issue at range (of the five needed to kill, only two need to hit the torso), at the cost of the up close 3-hit kill potential. Even without AP though, it’s probably the best PDW to use at range by merit of the recoil alone.

Trigger discipline (and burst for the ECR) is key for both the ECR and Vintorez. Paired with burst and its 2.1 second partial reload, the ECR is still a competent pick for dealing with multiple enemies, especially compared to the Vintorez, but maybe not the best pick overall.

Here’s the thing about the Obrez though. It’s a magnum that’s been dropped on its head, diagnosed with ADHD, and sexually identifies as a Mosin variant. Up close, guess the Obrez’s htk potential. It’s one to the head, two anywhere else. You know what else is a one-to-the-head-two-anywhere-else? That’s right, the DEagle, Mateba, MP412, and 1858 New Army. All guns that fire far faster with absolutely NO bullet deviation, that all hold more ammo both in the cylinder/magazine and in reserve. And, in the case of the DEagle, shoot at a higher velocity. Oh, and let’s take a look at the Obrez’s fire rate. 65? Little more than a round per second? Oh yeah, that’s totally enough to rechamber and fire again in a tense CQB situation where guns more often than not will kill you in 0.2 seconds or less. You’re still fucked if you miss. At least with the SFG, you’re only fucked if you miss PERIOD. With the Obrez, you’re fucked even if you hit anywhere but the head.

Right. Like people will ever come back from a fast reloading, low recoil, decent 4-hit range, fast firing gun. While I won’t doubt that it’ll become less popular over the next few months, it’ll still be as popular, if not more so, as the Honey Badger after a few months. But if anything positive can be said after the addition of the HK416, it’s that Honey Badger would no longer be as annoying to come across.

AA-12’s damage output, quite frankly, is no different from the Saiga’s. Both are 4-6 pellet kills that turn into 5-6 pellet kills when using Flechette or Birdshot. In my experience, the AA-12 one-shotted surprisingly often within 40 studs, dropping to a 2-shell kill up to 70, 3-shell up to 80, so on. I was also taking into account the much faster reload and the shorter profile, both of which help tremendously in CQB situations. All in all, the AA-12 is pretty much a sidegrade to the Saiga, hence why I decided to put it in the same tier as the Saiga.




also go commit die for placing the orginal MP5 in D-class, while the other variants are in above classes, EVEN THE MP5SD is in C-class


The SFG may be F-tier, but it’s S-tier in my heart. My love for the SFG has no bounds.


Wile you’re right about 6 hit kills being feasible, they are still 6 hit kills. A SCAR-L will do better at range than this thing, hell an AK12 will do better. And the AK12 is garbage. And while AP is viable yes, it just makes the range even worse, and basically tells you to kiss your 3 shot kill goodbye. Which is a very bad thing.

Yes, the ECR and Vintorez are competent. They can be. But that doesn’t mean they are good. Not at all. Vintorez is better becuase it at least gets the benefit of an integral suppressor.

I didn’t say the Obrez was a good weapon. I just said it wasn’t as bad as you made it out to be. And the Obrez isn’t even meant for CQC, it’s meant as a supplement for a lack of range on your primary. No, it’s not the best supplement, but it is an okay supplement. The gun isn’t complete garbage.

The fuck? It doesn’t 4 hit kill last I checked. I mean yeah AP, but the Badger is overall better thanks to its integral suppressor and faster handling speed. While I agree that the HK416 is good, I don’t think it’s the best thing since sliced bread. Nor will it continue to be that useful. The way I see it it’s a kind of sidegrade to the HB when you put AP on it. You can either have slower handling speed and slightly more killing power, or you can have an integral suppressor with faster handling speeds and reloads. Gee whiz, which one’s the better pick.

Hate to break it to you, but the Saiga is infinitely better than the AA-12. If I haven’t made it clear already, the AA-12 struggles HARD past 50-75 studs. Like, I’ll expend 10 rounds out of my drum and get one kill. At that point the AA-12 is inefficient and you’re just handicapping yourself by not using a better shotgun. While yes, it is an absolute monster in CQC and small buildings, it’s still held back heavily by its poor performance at medium range, which other shotguns actually do far better at. Once again, not saying it’s bad, certainly not. I’m just saying it’s not A- material. I personally would put it in B+ since it’s just a more polarized Saiga, which is usually not a good thing.


The MP5 usually is a 150-375 millisecond TTK (3-6 hit kill at 800 RPM). AP sacrifices the up close TTK up to 225 ms, but the easier 5-hit kills bring the ranged TTK to 300 ms. In comparison, the SCAR-L is a flat 288 milliseconds (TTK slowly increases the longer the range due to bullet velocity, but for the purposes of simplicity (and because all weapons compared have the same velocity of 2500 stud/s)), AK-12 is 257-343 milliseconds. Even within the 4-hit kill range, the MP5 is better up close than the above two assault rifles, and with AP it out-TTKs the AK-12 and is 22 milliseconds slower than the SCAR-L.

Obrez’s biggest damage advantage at range, beyond 120 or so studs, is ruined by the fucking atrocious spread. Sure, it 2-hits to the torso at a distance. Sure, it 1-hits to the head. But how the hell are you supposed to take advantage of it when the fucking gun can’t hit shit at that distance and longer?

The HK416 deals 31-24 damage. And I said it had a decent 4-hit kill range, not infinite. Also, the power isn’t the only draw to the HK416. It also has more controllable recoil, and a faster fire rate leading to a faster TTK.

Did we ever use the same gun? The AA-12 in my hands is okay within 60-90 studs, good within 45-55, and amazing within 40 studs. Then again I’ve mained secondary shotguns for so damn long that I’m just used to going in the enemies’ face and filling them with buckshot.


Okay Camaro if you didn’t see it already, I invited you to help us with the tier list revision later on. We’ll be in the discourse discord run by Kris. You know the one. It’s gonna be two weeks from now.

Also, MP5 is C tier. I think. But no higher.


So about May 30?



Ima say stuff i disagree with
AS VAL is superior to the Badger in basically every category
A+ tier
M16A4’s Only downside is burst mode.If you can handle the burst it is easily S tier but the burst gives it a learning curve so i would give A/A+
MP10 isn’t E tier It has amazing long range(even better with AP) sucks in CQC tho C tier
Tec-9 is better than the MP1911 in TTK and controllable recoil imo
Both suffer from the “If you miss you’re screwed” idea.
But one is D tier and the other is A tier???

Overall pretty accurate except for what i disagree with lmao


AS VAL is superior to the Badger in basically every category

Nope, HB with AP is a 4 hit kill at range. Furthermore, while the HB struggles in CQC against the AS VAL, it has more ammo, a faster reload, lower recoil, is far more capable at range, and handles overall better. IMO the AS VAL is still great, but not as good as the HB.

M16A4’s Only downside is burst mode.If you can handle the burst it is easily S tier but the burst gives it a learning curve so i would give A/A+

I don’t know about that, when it comes down to it a lot of things still outdo the M16A4. There’s also its ironsights to deal with. Thank you stylis for being dog shit by the way. “Gameplay over realism” my ass you lazy cucks. Anyways. Yeah the M16A4 is pretty good though. I’d say A- at best though.

MP10 isn’t E tier It has amazing long range(even better with AP) sucks in CQC tho C tier

Probably right, but what gets me is the handling speed and the flashlight. Built in. That gets you killed because enemies can see it too.

Tec-9 is better than the MP1911 in TTK and controllable recoil imo
Both suffer from the “If you miss you’re screwed” idea.
But one is D tier and the other is A tier???

You see… the MP1911 actually has damage. And it’s amazing.


Didn’t you say you scrambled your password and would never log back in?


I did. Then I came back just to roast the shit out of numbers. On this account. Which I did not scramble. So technically I still kept my promise.


what would be a good setup for the honey badger? I already have AP to add on it i would like to know the rest


Literally anything works. Personally I use this.

Coyote Sight OR Comp Aimpoint
Angled Grip / Laser
Armor Piercing


thank you so much


Some changes I’m considering making to the tier list in general.

  • Do mass voting which I will set up very shortly. As in, I’ll make polls and shit for it very soon. And post them here. And ping a ton of people in order to sway voting.

  • Set up a system like democracy where I rate a gun’s attributes. And rank those, then like… I dunno it’s hard to explain. Think of em like sections on a test with different point values.

  • Redo the entire tier list with these in mind.

As for the whole points system I have a prototype here. Let me show you what the max values for everything is.

Damage: 20 points
Overall damage including shots to kill, suppression, penetration, and fire rate.

Ammo: 15 points
Overall ammo of a weapon, including the amount of ammo per clip, the reserve, and ammo rarity.

Handling: 20 points
Overall handling of a gun that icludes reload speed, ads time, movement speed, muzzle velocity, and draw time.

Recoil: 5 points
Overall recoil of a gun.

Other Factors : +/- 5 points
Other factors can be anything that is abnormal about the gun or unique to it that can either result in giving it points or taking them away. Glitches go here too.

Max Score: 65 Points

Anyways. @MrGarfield26 would thou be willing to actually make a Google form for this very subject? Something like having every weapon in the game rated 1-10. That would be nice. I’m gonna be very busy for the next few days so I can’t make it myself.