Drakshal
the best full auto carbine is hands down the SR3M which is rank 69, however the M4A1, Groza 1, and Honey Badger are all similar in stat and this isn't even considering the M4, which is the best carbine stat wise
All thought yes they are similar, the Honey Badger is better than Groza-1:
Honey Badger has better firerate than Groza.
Same damage.
Groza's damage drops off at a closer range than Honey Badger.
But the Groza has less recoil and can go longer range without it's damage hitting it's minimal.
Now I would agree that the carbines don't have a meta if the FAL 50.63 PARA didn't exist in the game. This gun is better than the SR3M in ways of damage, damage at longer ranges, etc. It literally has the same damage as an AK at close range. And the FAL has a torso multiplier of 1.10 while SRM3 has just 1. SR3M's damage drops off at closer ranges than the FAL. Why would you use the SRM3? The only down sides that FAL has is a slower firerate (which is fine because it has its damage high), and recoil (which is manageable). Now that I think about it, why would I use the AK47? This FAL does more damage to torso, is better at longer ranges due to better recoil. The only reason why I wouldn't is less bullets. This gun makes the AK47 look like a joke. And considering you said
hell if we take rank 80 as the cut off for 'high rank' all these guns are under that limit
I am going to include the FAL 50.63 PARA to this list of higher up OP weapons.
now lets look at Assault rifles
the AS VAL is identical to the SR3M stat wise, it just boasts and integral suppressor and slightly worse ballistics, its arguably the best cqc assault rifle
The AK47 wants to know your location.
The M231 wants to know your location.
now we'll look at the AUG series
all 3 of the AUGs see extensive use by high skill players and in comp, their mid-long combat ability is unparalleled in the entire AR class
and the highest rank AUG is a rank 52 unlock
then of course there's the G36, which is practically meta defining, few other guns can boast such a balance of fire rate, recoil control, damage, and mobility
oh and its a rank 25 unlock
[i'm not gonna go into detail on the AK47 or L85A2 but rest assured they're both fantastic guns]
You said that "all of the AUGs see extensive use by high skill players and in comp, their mid-long combat ability is unparalleled in the entire AR class and the highest rank AUG is a rank 52 unlock". But the Scar-L does more damage at longer ranges than all of the AUGs.
then of course there's the G36, which is practically meta defining, few other guns can boast such a balance of fire rate, recoil control, damage, and mobility
oh and its a rank 25 unlock
The HK416 wants to know your location. The HK416 can boast balance of fire rate, it has better recoil control (HK416 has better sight and hipfire accuracy than the G36). Has better damage. The running speed is the same as the G36. And the HK416 is a Rank 64 unlock. So if the G36 is meta defining, and the HK beats it so easily, the HK is the meta defining weapon. And I see a lot more people getting mad because they died to an HK, than a G36. More people are going to buy the HK. Which is why StyLis has an incentive to not nerf it.
how about we look at LMGs?
the highest kill game in PF history was done with a SCAR HAMR, a rank 72 unlock
the L86 LSW has the same drop as a BFG and easily manageable recoil, its arguably the best long range auto in the game right now
the AUG HBAR is the LMG stopping the L86 LSW from being considered the best long range auto, in the words of Spirals, i've seen 'no recoil' exploits with more recoil than this gun
[i'm missing out the RPKs and MG36 for the sake of brevity but they're also very good]
hell if we take rank 80 as the cut off for 'high rank' all these guns are under that limit
Agreed, the LMGs are pretty balanced (except for M60, but no one buys that gun because it is so easy to get). The LMGs weren't one of the categories i was focusing on when I made my point about a lack of weapon balance being profitable.
now we'll look at all the 'op' weapons above rank 80
the AKM and AK103 are both good, but they're outmatched by the AK47 due to the 47's damage range making it that little bit better in cqc, apart from that all 3 of these guns are quite similar, so it wouldn't be truthful to say these guns are overpowered compared to their lower rank counterparts
You said that the AKM and AK103 are both good but are outmatched by the AK47 due to it's damage. Let's start here. Yes the AK47 does more damage than the AKM, but the AKM is a lot more recoil friendly. Me personally, recoil isn't a problem because I use Iron Sights. But the AKM is objectively more friendly and easier to use at longer ranges. And you can just use the FAL 50.63 PARA and get similar damage without a bunch of recoil only at the cost of 10 less bullets in the mag. So if you are good with ammo consumption and conservation, this might as well be a straight upgrade, because you can use those 20 bullets more effectively at longer ranges, and just as effectively at close ranges. The AKM just had lower recoil than the AK103, but the AK103 has lower recoil than the AK47. And the AK12 has not nearly as much damage than these 3 guns, but has a lot less recoil. Idk why you didn't mention recoil in this section.
the G11 can be good, but requires a lot of skill input to use the burst effectively
I don't use burst weapons so I wouldn't know.
the vector is one, but as i touched on earlier it can be matched effectively by the Colt SMG [though it has a lower fire rate, its greater damage give it a very similar TTK and the higher mag cap is very welcome, with a bit of skill its recoil is negligible]
The vector has compared to the Colt SMG makes the Colt SMG look like a joke. The vector does more damage, has a higher firerate, has manageable recoil, etc. Why would you even use the Colt? As for it's magazine size, does it really matter if the colt has a lot of ammo if you can't use that ammo consistently? Why spend the time learning how to use it consistently when the KRISS is so easy to use and it's only downside is 7 less bullets. And a side note: KRISS has more ammo in reserve than the Colt, which is probably due to it's low magazine size. So why wouldn't a low level player want to buy the KRISS. It makes the Colt SMG a complete joke, and you can get easy kills with it (I have picked it up numerous times). And once again, StyLis isnt going to nerf it, cause it makes them money. This is why you shouldn't monetize your progression system like EA does.
the MG3KWS is good, but its sluggish walk speed and even slower reload speed make it an extremely circumstantial weapon, i'd use a HK21 over it any day
Agreed. LMGs are balanced.
Battle rifles,
i concede, the FAL is good, however i'd say its as good as the ak12br, if not slightly worse
the AK12BR has the same time to kill as the FAL in cqc, and the lowest recoil of any battle rifle, the FAL has excellent damage, but its ballistics and high recoil make sustained fire impossible at ranges the AK12BR breezes through, and all this isnt even considering the 1000 rpm burst it has
"i concede, the FAL is good, however i'd say its as good as the ak12br, if not slightly worse the AK12BR has the same time to kill as the FAL in cqc," Yes and at long quarters the FAL can get 3 shot kills while the ak12br can only get 4.
"the FAL has excellent damage, but its ballistics and high recoil make sustained fire impossible at ranges the AK12BR breezes through".
Not impossible. The AK47 has significantly max camera kick and you can get long range kills with it up to 600 studs away while spraying. The FAL shouldn't be that hard considering the reward is 3HK at long range (not considering headshots).
"this isnt even considering the 1000 rpm burst it has"
I don't know anything about bursting. I personally don't like it.
if you look at snipers, with the sufficient skill, you can style on the M107 and Hecate with just about any high RoF sniper [cough cough Mosin]
apart from that i'd say the SVDS, Scout, and WA2K all hold a joint top tier spot
Ok but the 1SK on torso potential of the M107 and Hecate II make it extremely lovable by people who have bad aim and some money. That was my point that these two weapons make the BFG complete garbage in comparison. Remember I said?
Hectate - Objectively better than BFG and Intervention.
M107 - Objectively better than BFG and Intervention.
That was my point. That these weapons make the BFG and Intervention complete garbage. Why would you use the BFG is these two weapons can do the same thing but can hold more than 1 bullet at once? And why use the intervention when the M107 and Hecate are slow as well but do a lot more damage? You wouldn't. And the fact that they are this OP compared to the Intervention and BFG, are why people will buy these weapons when they are too lazy to go threw the progression system. I said they were OP compared to the intervention and BFG. I didn't say they made the SVDS, Scout, and WA2K obsolete.
there aren't any DMRs over rank 100, but even the SCAR SSR, which is a rank 85 unlock, is a 2 shot headshot at range, which is an achievement the SA58 also manages with double the fire rate [oh and the VSS Vintorez is a 2 shot torso and 2 shot head at any range, with an even higher fire rate at rank 46]
I didn't say anything about DMRs, Idk why you brought this up.
shotguns have a lot of issues in general, so i wont touch on them here, but the highest fire rate and highest range shotguns are all under rank 70.
If you weren't going to touch them then why bring it up? Also it isn't just range that matters.
i'm not gonna go into pistols now because this post is already this long, but you can clearly see my point
Why not? I brought it up, so if you are replying to me I think it would be appropriate for you to counter my claim but okay.
this claim of yours seems to be based solely on personal biases not any kind of analysis of what guns are and aren't good
What personal biases? You can't just accuse someone of doing/saying something because of bias without showing what that bias is. Well, I guess you can but you sound like you are reaching for an excuse to dismiss opinions you don't like without any logical reasoning, probably because that is exactly what you are doing.
the MP10 isn't objectively better than the UMP45
the UMP is a 2 shot headshot at close range, and can kill much faster than the MP10 in close quarters, however the MP10 excels at mid range in comparison to the UMP
Why did we bring up MP10 and UMP? Did I mention them first and forget?
its hard to say the Hecate is objectively better than the BFG [though there is a strong case to be made there], considering the BFG has a faster walkspeed, faster aimspeed, and is overall a more versatile weapon, though i personally think both guns are hot garbage, and for good reason, you cant say one is objectively better or worse than the other
You say that it is hard to say that the hecate isn't objectively better because:
The BFG has faster walkspeed
The BFG has faster aimspeed
Well for 1, the walkspeed thing can be completely ignored considering shift + c is a thing. And 2, both of them have extremely bad aimspeed so no matter if you pick hecate or bfg, you are going to be camping, or trying to get hipfire shots regardless. Also the aimspeed on the Hecate is 8, while the BFG's aimspeed is 9. Is that really a huge difference considering the Hecate can still be fired more frequently due to it not needing to be reloaded as often? The Hecate is objectively better because:
Same 1SK potential to Torso as the BFG.
Can be shot more frequently due to higher magazine (or the fact it actually has a magazine).
So given this, why would you use the BFG?
oh and the M107 is a curiosity, but its effective fire rate is only slightly higher than the intervention, which is hot garbage
Ok, but you know what makes the M107 way better than Intervention too the point where the Intervention is garbo? It's 1SK potential to the torso at any range. It also has 10 bullets in the magazine which is more than the Intervention. So why would you use the Intervention? And because of this, people will buy this gun. That puts StyLis in a position once again where they can make profit off of having unbalanced guns.
